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Consideration II - Sibylla Bostoniensis — LiveJournal
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Mon, Nov. 17th, 2003, 09:06 pm
Consideration II

OK, this time I'll put it behind an LJ cut. (I don't like it when other people use LJ cuts (except for hiding spoilers), but then my net connection and browser can handle a 400k friends page. )



learnedax comments:
I'm not sure I agree that creativity and consideration are predominantly at odds, but it does seem to have a high correlation, at least around here.

In addition to seeming to fit the observational data, there's a good theoretical explanation. That always makes me happy when that happens. :)

First of all, I want to re-emphasize that we're not talking about the total broad class of all things which are considerate, we're talking about gestures of consideration which indicate a person has been thought of in their absence, which I will continue to call "gestures of consideration" for short.

The thing about such gestures of consideration which creative people tend not to get is that they are, practically speaking, often rooted in consistency. The underlying dichotomy is really not one of "creative" vs. "considerate" -- two terms I have employed to characterize this contrast in mutually flattering terms (yes, this is a veiled MBTI discussion :) -- but a dichotomy between being oriented toward novelty vs. being oriented towards consistency. It is the people who consistently think of others who think of others when they are absent. If they think of you while you're there, they'll continue to think of you while you're not.

Creativity is about novelty. To create is to make that which is new. The very mechanics of personality which incline someone to creativity disadvantage them in consistency.

That disinclination is not so great it cannot be overcome with even just a moderate amount of determination. But it is, as far as we know, a permanent inclination, and learning to overcome it does not make it go away, the same way that 25 years of instrumental music training on both hands has rendered me marvelously capable in my left hand, but still right handed.

The inclination to consistency manifests in two ways, which is why there is another interesting correlation to which I have alluded. Those people who are most likely to do these gestures of consideration from an orientation to consistency are also more likely to express that consideration in gestures of traditional forms. They are less likely to express their consideration by writing a poem than they are by writing a note in a Christmas card, less likely to send a gift "for no reason" than send a birthday present.

The inclination for consistency is precisely what imbues for those people tradition with such appeal. What is tradition if not consistency? Thus the observation of traditional gestures in traditional ways can be especially important to the same people who are so good at remembering to think of someone when they aren't there.

That is why it's very rare to see someone consistently do highly creative and innovative gestures of consideration.
I suspect that it is more about attitudes with regard to oneself and others, in particular whether you focus your energies outward or inward, but the effect is quite likely the same.

I would disagree with that surmise, in that I don't think this varies with introversion/extroversion. I have been particularly impressed at the gestures of consideration from a number of introverted Considerate people. They tend to express themselves not in surprise parties but letters, not to many but to few, but the pattern is still there. On the flip side, gregarious, extroverted creative people don't seem to be any better at it than their introverted brethren.
Since you give the SCA as an example, I find it worth noting that (modulus martial activities, which is an entirely different topic) the main division in recognition within the SCA is between creativity and service. The mapping to this topic is not exact in that service is not truly the same as consideration, but it's close enough to be interesting.

Oh, yes, I've gone on a bit, on that topic before. :) The one thing the SCA really has going for it that so many subcultures lack -- and I swear I never imagined I would say any such thing -- is the Tripartite Model of Human Endeavor, which we see reflected in the reward system. I won't go into it now, but I'm convinced the fact the Society has codified respect/status for three very different sorts of roles with in the Society, and woven that respect into the fabric of the Society's culture, has much to do with the vigor and durability of the Society, especially in contrast to many other groups. It goes quite a way to helping Considerate and Creative people (as well as many other "warring factions") feel both at home and tolerant of others.

But that said, it's still the case that local branches can fall out of balance. Since there is no equilibrium between these various roles/styles/approaches, if one gets a little advantage, it tends to be self-reinforcing, and spiral quickly into a big advantage. It can happen both easily and quickly. Also, when a group gets particularly large and people form up into subgroups (regardless of porosity), they tend to pick people like them, which can result in localized imbalances. Hence, "service households", "A&S households" and "fighting households".

But I digress: this is far beyond mere Considerate vs. Creative, or even Service vs. A&S vs. Martial, and it is much more complicated (in Carolingia, I understand the greatest local award overlap is between Daystar and Moon!)
I think your practical solutions are workable, but do not really address a major barrier in solving this problem, to wit: suggesting to others that you feel a lack of consideration is on the one hand frequently perceived as selfish either by yourself or by others, and on the other hand taints the result. As you say, we are talking about being considered in one's absence. Thus, receiving consideration because you acted to arrange it is fundamentally unsatisfying, even if it is not the trivial case of directly asking for it.

Amen. Have you been following Mason Darrow?

In addition to feeling one is being selfish to ask for such things, some people feel ashamed to from a sense that having to ask for gestures that you mean things to others is pathetic, or angry for being put in that spot. Probably lots of avenues for unhappiness.
This is what we call a catch-22.

Well, I think it is possible to let people know what you want in general without specifying it, and without tainting it. There are other, er, realms of human experience, shall we say, were people in asymmetrical doer/done-to relationships manage to explicitly negotiate what will transpire between them, and I gather many have managed to do so in a way which leaves room for authenticity of expression and surprize.
Now, that fact that you wrote this is in and of itself an act of consideration (in multiple senses).

It is, but not one of the gestures of consideration of which we were speaking. I'm still thinking about that computer program. :)



Mon, Nov. 17th, 2003 08:20 pm (UTC)
umbran

I'm still thinking about that computer program. :)

I've a friend who goes by the name Prescott. He had a novel solution -he instituted "National Prescott Week". The week is not contiguous. It is seven days spread throughout the year. On each day of the week, Prescott gives one person he knows a gift he figures they'd like, with no warning. Only after giving the gift does he explain National Prescott Week to you.

Yes, in a way it's similar to the old, "For my birthday I'll give away presents, rather than recieving them" thing. But so few people these days even know of that tradition that on the whole it seems pretty fresh and creative to me.

Mon, Nov. 17th, 2003 09:08 pm (UTC)
tpau

does that tradityion exist outside of tolkein? i suppose it must, "tokens" have existed for practicaly forever, andyou got them at parties, birthdays, sites of holy pilligrimage... is a neat idea...

Mon, Nov. 17th, 2003 10:08 pm (UTC)
siderea

I like that. I've done the spontaneous appreciation thing, but have never managed to systemicized.

One of my problems is discouraging people from reciprocating. :) I'm actually kind of psychotic about gifts, and generally prefer not to be asked to accept them. Since it's not something about which 95% of people are understanding about, I just keep my birthday a secret and mostly don't attend any Christmas holiday functions at which gift-giving might happen. So the whole "give people gifts on my birthday" thing is cool, but would break radio silence.

Happily there are other days of the year. Midsummer, for instance. :)

Tue, Nov. 18th, 2003 05:44 am (UTC)
fabrisse

Midsummer Potlatch. I like it.

Fri, Nov. 28th, 2003 09:56 am (UTC)
alexx_kay

Heh. I try to give you a gift whenever I see you. They're just conversational/intellectual, rather than physical. After all, you have given so many of the like to *me* :-)

Tue, Nov. 18th, 2003 05:50 am (UTC)
cristovau: Creative People

The thing about such gestures of consideration which creative people tend not to get is that they are, practically speaking, often rooted in consistency.

I'm going to get pedantic and say that "get" is a bit misleading as a verb here. My though was that I, a creative and novelty intrigued person, get the idea that people like the consistancy of a birthday present or Christmas card. But when I thought that, I was thining get=understand. Looking back on the statement the term get could also mean "acquire as a mode of living" or "hold as a deep understanding." I understand that my friends would like Christmas cards every year, and when I'm not too distracted I send them (roughly every other year) It isn't a matter of understanding consistancy, but maintaining it that is the key.

The comparison to right or left handedness is a good one. The creative-considerate thing isn't exclusive and in some cases, I suspect there is ambi-interest, though it's probably rare. Usually someone will have a leaning and will be good with the other hand too. I'm working the consideration thing, but it takes help and focus to do it.

Another thing to consider is that creative people want to do things in a new splashy way. Getting a box of cards and writing happy holidays on each on doesn't cut it... so, when they are considerate (inconsistantly) it's often a more elaborate operation. It occurs to me now that I make cards more challenging because I insist on doodling Groucho glasses or some such thing on the front and throw in some verse in the card, if I don't make the thing by hand... hmmn, I wonder if I couuld actually just send out thirty cards that had nothing but happy holidays in them. It might drive me crazy.

Wed, Nov. 19th, 2003 03:39 pm (UTC)
siderea: Re: Creative People

I'm going to get pedantic and say that "get" is a bit misleading as a verb here. My though was that I, a creative and novelty intrigued person, get the idea that people like the consistancy of a birthday present or Christmas card.

Ah, but if you were to say that, you would be demonstrating that you did not, in fact, get what I said. For I was not talking about "liking the consistency of a birthday present or Christmas card". Not in the giver, and certainly not in the recipient.

It occurs to me now that I make cards more challenging because I insist on doodling Groucho glasses or some such thing on the front and throw in some verse in the card, if I don't make the thing by hand... hmmn, I wonder if I couuld actually just send out thirty cards that had nothing but happy holidays in them. It might drive me crazy.

I have the same problem. There's nothing good enough but that it can't be complexified in the name of personalization. :)

Tue, Nov. 18th, 2003 08:38 pm (UTC)
learnedax

(I don't like it when other people use LJ cuts (except for hiding spoilers), but then my net connection and browser can handle a 400k friends page. )

Far be it from me to tell you how to write your journal

After looking this over a couple of times, I don't really have a rebuttal. I find novelty vs. consistency to be a far more immediate statement of this problem, although that may just be individual perception, and on that basis I agree.

The problem of tainting still stands (these other, er, realms of experience are on some level acting rather than honest expression, no matter how much surprise is involved. Otherwise negotiation really can't occur. Same problem with consideration. Let's call it Heisenberg for humans) but that doesn't prevent your suggestions from being good ways to improve the global situation.